BonniesPlants.com

Hi All,

I just read Bonnie's newsletter and I noted that she said to get frogs out of the pond if it freezes. My pond will partially freeze, but the bubbler and deicer will keep a fairly good size hole in the ice. Will my frogs be ok? It is my understanding that green frogs and bullfrogs hibernate underwater. I have quite a few of both and I don't want to see anything happen to them. I figured if the frog is not an underwater hibernator, he would hop into the woods on his own. I also have quite a few tadpoles of varying sizes in the pond and from my research I understand that many will not morph for 1 - 2 years and they hibernate as well. Do I need to get the frogs out of the pond? I'm not sure what I would do with the tads or how I would ever catch all of them. I have a kitty litter pan of aquarium sand in the bottom for them to burrow into. Your thoughts and experiences regarding overwintering frogs are greatly appreciated.

My pond is one year old (no frogs last year, they all showed up this summer), 2300 gallons and 3 feet deep.

Marnie

My tadpoles and frogs overwinter quite nicely in a 3000 gallon pond with maximum depth of 4ft in northern Illinois (zone 5a). Last winter, when the temperature reached 60 degrees for two days in January, a bullfrog came out of hibernation and sat in the sun on the island in my pond. Check out my website: http://donaldperry.spaces.live.com

don

I live in massachusetts close to plymouth, and the frogs that I had all passed one year as they didn't have any leaves or mud to go into. whereas you have some aquarium sand in the bottom you may get lucky. When i got any frogs I got them out and brought them in like it did my koi as I had a cement pond and it froze solid all the way to the bottom. 3 feet. the first year that I owned the house we put feeder fish in it to see if they would make it they didn't. the waterfall was beautiful when it was a little frozen. I put them in an aqurium for the winter and placed them in my basement in a very cool area so hopefully they slept. which they didn't. I placed a screen cover over the frogs so they wouldn't hop out. It did cost me a few worms and crickets. but I was rewarded which song all winter. the tadpoles I fed some spinache, and alage wafers. my kids were small at that time so they took care of them. some morphed into small frogs by spring. I hope you have good luck with them but the big frogs I would send them to a pond else where as in the spring when the koi spawn they will eat the babies and eggs really fast. so I always after the summer was over I sent them packing I have alot of cranberry bogs that they can protect from bugs. My daughter also brought home a couple of small turtles that we kept all winter and turned him bake to the bogs when it got warm. talk about free loading

Thanks for the responses! Don, your pond is lovely!

It is getting colder here and there were no frogs or tadpoles out this past weekend. I guess I will just have to see how they do this winter in the pond.

I actually don't mind the big frogs because otherwise I will be overrun by goldfish babies! I had no idea how prolific goldfish are! My koi are still too small to spawn. Maybe next spring, but the largest (of 3) is 7 inches.

Thanks again!

Marnie

Here is the problem. Many have pots of dirt in the bottom of the pond and the frogs will usually go there to hibernate in the winter. The problem is, if they don't always burrow into the dirt. And if they decide to leave the pond of their own accord in the winter, they will die as they will not be able to dig into frozen dirt in the winter.

Tadpoles are fine as they spend their early life in water. Frogs do not live in water. While they do spend time in the water, they are often see out of the pond sitting on a pot or leaves of plants.

In our store in MI we brought the a bunch of tadpoles into a display pond for the winter. Kids would come by and watch their progress as they developed. In the spring they had all turned to frogs. To keep them from dying we put pieces of Styrofoam on top of the water for them to hop out of the water and sit in the sun.

The same year, I had a huge ammonia spike in the middle of the winter. I thought a fish had died under the ice. We used an ice auger and out John Deere tractor to remove all the ice. Even with heavy duty equipment, it was a major undertaking of Rich and 2 other male employees. The ammonia spike? All the frogs were dead on the bottom. We remove them all and a few days later the ammonia dropped back to zero! One fish had bad ammonia burns and we gradually warmed her up and put her in the tank inside with the tadpoles. She spent the rest of the winter inside and I still have her today.

Most fish that die, die in the spring. It is parasites and or ammonia that went unnoticed all winter long. As the water warmed the parasites, which don't multiply quickly in colder water, and ammonia will not peak until warmer water, that causes 99% of the deaths in the spring.

This is why I tell you, treat the pond for parasites in the fall before the water temperature drops too long to all the treatment to work.

This is why I tell you to test your water all winter long....

I recall a lady I helped and her ammonia was off the chart. She insisted there was nothing dead in the pond. I told her, "get in the pond and find what ever is dead, take every pot out and LOOK" Even though she was ticked, she followed my advise. Inside a pot between the leaves was a dead bird! She is still a very customer many years later.

Bonnie

Oh boy, now I am worried about the frogs AND my fish! Do you know what kills the frogs? Do they die because there is no mud or do frogs die in natural ponds in winter as well? Would anyone consider putting sand directly into the bottom of the pond in the fall for the frogs and vaccuming it up in the spring? I feel terrible if something about my pond is killing the frogs and even worse if the dead frogs are going to kill my fish! I have a kitty litter pan of sand in the pond, but I am not sure if the frogs will find it or if it will protect them. The only plants overwintering in my pond are hardy water lilys with gravel on the top. I don't think the frogs can burrow in there. Has anyone else had frogs survive the winter regularly like Don? Anyone have any novel solutions for helping frogs winter in their ponds?

I am fairly certain that I will not have any volunteers this winter to help me chip through the ice and look for dead frogs!

Marnie

Mud ponds are a totally different story - they have no liner so the frogs can burrow as deep as they like.

I am not sure if kitty litter in a pot would work or not. I have never tried it.

I had pots of plants in the bottom of my pond in MI and yet the frogs did not burrow down in them. And I am talking about a dozen or so frogs that died.

I only write about my personal experience and those based on emails from customers - that I can verify.

I would surely love to hear from others with experience of frogs in ice covered ponds.

Bonnie

The things with frogs is......they burrow into the mud for the winter when they finnally burrow to where they like it. then they create a slime that goes all around their body within this slime is trapped O2 that the frog has released in its burrow. this is used all winter but the frogs when the mud gets colder their body slows down to an hibernating state, and they don't need that much O2. they have sort of an antifreeze in their body that helps them to cool down. don't you wish. there is a beetle that does the same thing. the frogs we have in the pond don't realize that they have no mud so they stay somewhat burrowed into the plants,and try to do the slime thing and that is where they get lost. they need to breath..... not thru their nose as in summer but thru their skin. so they drown. that is why when it gets colder I take the frogs to a real pond/lake and turn them loose so they'll come back another time. Well..... you can all buy an aquarium to put them in and feed them with crickets and meal worms for the winter or put them in the pond now, they'll make it as the water is still a little warm. the turtles that are by me in the bogs are hibernating now as when I go there I don't see tham anymore. the frogs hide very well out of our sight so they'll be tuff to find. I know this because of a Discovery channel that I watch. the one about frogs hasn't been on in a long time but i would love to see the rerun of it. when they show you they have a piece of glass that separtes the frog from the mud half so they can tape it while it is doing the hibernating thing. It was amazing. Those little chick a dees that stay out all winter they also have that antifreeze thing for their feet and legs as those are small exstremadies and the blood doesn't need to circulate that much. those are the things we would lose first if we got frostbite. that also was on the animal planet channel.